D is for Dianic, Diversity, Discrimination, and DNA

OK. I’ll play.

This past week, everybody’s been talking about Pantheacon and the backlash against Z. Budapest’s cisfemale-only ritual.[1] The Bad Witch tries being flip, but this week, it’s hard to watch people (read: Pagans) invalidate one another (read: other Pagans) and use personal-condemnation to hurt those who stand along-side us.

Before I begin, I have to say that I was not at Pantheacon; not because I wouldn’t have loved to be there but because I have much on my plate and California is (in every sense of the word) far from Alabama. I also have to say that I don’t hate Z. Budapest[2] – I’ll get to that in a minute. But, like Lazarus K:

I have deep respect for Budapest’s role as an elder in the Pagan community and the work that she’s done that has benefitted all of us, male and female alike, I can’t let the comment, ‘Women are born not made by men on operating tables,’ go without providing a more inclusive view.

If you’ve missed the memo, I’ll give you a rundown. (The Wild Hunt also has a collection of statements on the opposing side of Budapest’s principles.)

The controversy revolves around a gender and exclusion. In a nutshell, a ritual led by Z. Budapest was billed as being open to “genetic women” only. This doesn’t sit well with a lot of folks, because it consciously prohibits transwomen. Not only that, last year there was a bit of a flap over the same thing. Many hoped this would be resolved. It was, but not to the satisfaction of detractors – most of whom are very restrained in their censure.

Deborah Castellano, a Dianic Wiccan herself, says that due to Budapest’s words and actions Castellano no longer regards Z. Budapest “as one of [her] personal Dianic elders though [she does] acknowledge [Budapest’s] work in the community and her personal struggles.”

And with Mrs. B. at Confessions of a Pagan Soccer Mom,who weighs in at length, noting that “the time when it was okay to exclude people based on their gender, physical sex organs, or sexual orientation is over.” Amen? Amen.[3]

Crystal Blanton, writing at Daughters of Eve, offers a mediation on discrimination in which she recalls that:

We judge one another in order to define who is Black enough, spiritual enough, Pagan enough or oppressed enough and we miss the mark on the true gift of our community.  The best gift that we can give is to love more, understand more, empathize more , show more, give more, listen more, connect more and even identify more with those who have experienced this here journey called life.

It’s been pointed out to me that I need a meaningful transition here. Rather than revising the whole post, may I just say that the following is not related to Blanton’s comment?

Usually it’s those who are crying “inequality” the loudest that are the ones who will strip your freedoms fastest. Some people want power so badly that they will deprive it from the most marginalized.

Side note – [4]

Recently I had another Witch openly deride me in her blog for being a Ceremonial Magician.[5] Right after having mocked me, as a “book witch,” she dispatched a post about “religious elitism” (damn, don’t that door swing both ways?) and religious freedom within Paganism. Hot on the heels of that, she disparaged me specifically – all but called TBW out by name – for performing the LBRP: “she ‘called the Archangels’ into my living room.”[6] But this is all just my side note. It doesn’t really mean anything. Just that discrimination happens everywhere. Even in small-town Alabama, lol, go figure.

Now, as a Pagan community, we have a number of different – and valuable – questions to contemplate and a reaction to deliberate.

Picture from “Doing Magic: The Writings of a Holy Idiot.

  • Should a ritual held at a paid event be limited to only a certain type of participant, while not allowing others?
  • If a transwoman has paid her admission just like the ciswomen present, then why can’t she also join in a celebration of womanhood?
  • And does Budapest have the right to limit the ritual this way?
  • Where do we draw the line?

Unfortunately, yes. Budapest has the right to hold whatever kind of ritual she chooses. Whether or not that’s smart or moral begs the question. It is her choice to decide the intent of her ritual, and therefore who may (and who may not) participate. It is our right to decide whether or not to attend, support, or protest in such a ritual.

In a culture that asks us to tick either M or F in a little box or bubble, there is a tendency to neglect the fact that we are not always what we “seem” and that the authentic self is goes beyond the material husk in to which we are assigned.[7]   According to Anne Fausto-Sterling’s now two-decades old work on genders (when are we going to listen?):

Western culture is deeply committed to the idea that there are only two sexes. . . . But if the state and the legal system have an interest in maintaining a two-party sexual system, they are in defiance of nature. For biologically speaking, there are many gradations running from female to male; and depending on how one calls the shots, one can argue that along that spectrum lie at least five sexes– and perhaps even more.

Given that four percent of my fellow human beings are born intrasexual, I cannot in good conscience delineate cisfemale from other-than-cisfemale. Personally, I wouldn’t design, conduct, or attend a ritual which endorses physiological seeming-fact over personal truth. To me, a transwoman – someone who gender-identifies as female despite congenital biology – has  just as much right to celebrate the joys and mysteries of womanhood as I do. Because, to me, she is a woman. I am not her god/dess and refuse to make judgments about what her (yes, her) personal experience with her body is and is not.

I agree with Rowen Pendragon, who argues:

Now, let’s break this apart for a second.  I am a woman.  I was born female.  I am all-for women-only space and women-only ritual.  I am also all-for men-only ritual space.  Hell, I’d be all-for transgender-only space if it was desired.  Why?  Because we all have our own Mysteries related to gender and gender identity to explore and we have the right to explore those things and honor them in private space.  But this is something that should be done in private space, not at a public event. 

On the other hand, some folks raise an interesting counterargument: we don’t protest mosques and synagogues that still make men and women worship separately, and we don’t protest the Catholic Church for disallowing Priestesshood.

While it’s interesting, I find this argument to be a false analogy. By choice, we are not Muslim, Jewish, or Catholic. So what they do in their worship space is none of our affair. Plus. it’s imperative that we acknowledge that many in our Pagan community are in our Pagan community because they felt uninvited and undesirable in other religious traditions.[8] Think about it. We are Pagans. How dare we say that someone else’s practice or presence is inferior to “ours.” And worse – the “ours” within “ours.”

As Pagans, however, you might draw a better analogy that argues that Pagan women do not protest male only rituals. True. No one said that it wasn’t OK to be selective. But selective and discriminatory are two different things.

So I ask, “Where do you draw the line?” The line between selectivity and intolerance?

Lady Carolina asks:

Do you really need to be part of our Rites? Can you leave us have our Rites alone and create your own? Nobody tells you how to be or do, you can write your own book, your own story, your own spirituality. Why fight with those who wrote the book that is specific to one type of spirituality? . . . When it comes to Women’s Mysteries we have protests outside our Rites and Ceremonies. Why is that? Why is it ok to protest when we choose to celebrate our mysteries – our sacred blood?

But then, I have no choice but to ask, what about women with amenorrhea? What of my beautiful, wonderfully female sisters and daughters – perhaps they are athletes, perhaps they’ve encountered ill-health – but for whatever reason, they do not experience “sacred blood” like I do – or at all. Do they get to come to the party?

Stoopid Girlz - click to play

And what of intrasexuals? If we had only cismale-only and cisfemale-only rituals, they’d be out on both counts. What do we do? Ask them to form their own community? Doesn’t this reek of “separate but equal” to you? It does me.

Here’s how I see it. I am a cisfemale. I do my nails. I wear skirts. I like my big-ol’ boobies. I giggle. I like boys. And pink. And P!ИK. And cooking and cleaning (yes, I like them if no one else is home – but I did just hire a maid, so that’s girlie, right?). And bunnies. And gardening. Sometimes, I even wear makup. Especially lipstick – I will spend twenty-minutes on lipstick. If I were a little younger, I would totes rock-out some Hello Kitty. My hair is long and I love braids. And hats. And pearls. My voice squeaks once in a while. I like to drink a little and take kissy-face pictures in the girls’ bathroom with my other cisgirl-and-non-cisgirlfriends. And if you promise never to tell anyone, I kinda like appletinis. Like, a lot. A lot, a lot.[9]

I was raised with a strongly female influence. My first coven was all female – all academic: read third wave feminist and gynocentrism galore. Of the notably Z. Budapest variety. This first coven was led by an ex-nun. My second coven was with an openly sexual all-female group. [10]  I have a PhD in Gender Studies – inclusive Gender Studies. It hasn’t been until the past few years that I have engaged with men as magickal counterparts (other than metaphorically).

But I identify as female, not because I am biologically female, but simply because I identify as female.

Take this story under consideration:

I have a dear friend who “looks” female on the outside (god, I hate the language of it all) – she has a nice pair of boobies, a vajay, a little jaw, a set of full hips, full lips, and little feet.

Couldn’t make a baby for her life.

So, at thirty-sumpfrin years-old the OBGYN told her that it was because she is “not entirely a girl.” She has a genotype which does not match her phenotype[11]: her genetic makeup is not what would be expected on the basis of an ovary-wearing hot-mama like her.

But had she not had the blood-test, we would have never known.

How many stories like this do we have to hear to realize that we ain’t just boyz n girlz? Remember when for a few years, a few years back, Olympic athletes with a SRY gene were not permitted to participate as females (SRY genes can cause Swyer syndrome and other “disorders” which cause a human being to “appear” externally female but in place of baby-making ovaries, are “functionless tissue” which becomes medically identified as “gonads.” The language alone is fuuuucked up.)

Get this – if my darling girlie had been a lesbian and/or had never tried becoming pregnant (eff the heteronormative imperative that says all straight Barbies want Baby Krissys – eff it hard) no one would have known that she has boy-ish-genes.

My Goddess made my girlfriend that way.[12]

It was not an error.

Let’s celebrate.

Now that she knows, is she still invited to the “cisgirls olny” ritual?

Before she knew, would it have made a difference?

What are we going to do – blood tests? Doesn’t that butt its head against blood sacrifice in a really appalling sort of way?

I get it. Some of y’all imagine transfemales as men in disguise.

I imagine my transfemale sisters as – well, sisters.

And that’s not to say my perspective is superior to any one else’s. Just to ask, fuck, y’all?[13] Are we going to start asking for genetic profiles at the ritual doors? Or can we just say PLPT and ask, “How’s your soul?”



[1] A not rhetorically uncharged eye-witness report of which can be found on Ted Teo’s Bishop in the Grove  and an Open Letter to Pantheacon Organization by Miniver Cheevy.

[2] But I stand fully behind those that feel ire for her: See The Provocation.

[3] Oh, well. Despite The Bad Witch’s, perhaps sometimes naïve, confidence in folks, some people actually do suck.

[4] Dear SKW, I know you think that all content in all of my blogs are about you. They are not. This, however, is. (The last time I actually blogged about you was Abraham and Isaac. And that was more about my experience than you, per se.) I’ll make you a deal, to avoid confusion, when I am talking about you, I will use red font – and underline. Like here. And the footnote below. Now either leave me alone or man up and comment on my post. Peace?

[5] Look, y’all. Reading does not make me a scholar; reading makes me a better scholar. Likewise, I am not a Witch because I read a book. I am a Witch because I was Born This Way. However, I’m a better Witch because I read a book.

[6] I could lend you the book or any number of URLs that would explain that the only “power” I was engaging was the avataristic representation of the four elemental quarters, the kabalistic cross, and all of the symbology of sacred geometry in one fell swoop.

[7] I teach Cultural Diversity and one of my favorite sections is when I teach (yes, I teach this to Freshmen) Anne Fausto-Sterling’s  Sexing the Body: Gender Politics and the Construction of Sexuality (2000) and/or “The Five Sexes: Why Male and Female Are Not Enough.” (The Sciences: 1993. 20-24.)

[8] Not all of us, true. But enough of our brothers and sisters that we should not discount their experiences.

[9] But I will also Fuck-You-Up if you mess with one of my sisters. Especially if that particular sister has been shat upon by every other segment of society and has run to our (mutual) Goddess for protection. Bettah duck.

Gretchen Wilson, "Redneck Women" - click to play

[10]Can I get a big “hell yeah” and “yee-haw” from the other cis-girls like me?

[11] I think. I think those is the right words, yes?

[12] As Momma Monster says, “There’s nothing wrong with loving who you are / . . .cause [S]He made you perfect” just the way you are, “Cause God makes no mistakes” and neither does the Lady. You gotta know TBW is pissed when she goes Gaga.

[13] Not to be read as “Fuck y’all.” Commas make a world of difference.

This post is (make up work for) part of a year-long project. Rowan Pendragon’s The Pagan Blog Project; “a way to spend a full year dedicating time each week very specifically to studying, reflecting, and sharing . . . .    The project consists of a single blog post each week posted on prompt that will focus on a letter of the alphabet” (http://onewitchsway.com/pbp2012/).

25 comments on “D is for Dianic, Diversity, Discrimination, and DNA

  1. Susana says:

    I loved your post, and I must confess I love appletinis too xx.
    I think that the fact you have a different sexual body does not need to be known by everyone. When we introduce ourselves we do not say ‘I am a woman’ or ‘a man’, we just think the other will get an image of what we are. And I do not think someone need to ask what gonads do you have or what genes do you have, and you can choose not to answer if it is asked, it is none of their business. Maybe if we are looking for a sex intercourse it could be relevant for some, to know the nature of our partner, but not for a ritual like that.

  2. harzgeist says:

    Well said! Basically the one example of your friend shows how unnecessary it is to class people in categories based on their sex. I’m hoping the controversy with Z Budapest will make more people stop thinking in these categories!

  3. west says:

    We’ve actually had trouble finding first-hand accounts from any persons who attempted to attend and were refused. There’s been lots of excuses why, but the fact remains: it would be at minimum *useful* and humanizing to hear from these people first hand, rather than second.

    Until we hear from them directly, it remains an open question whether anyone was refused at all. That detail needs to be firmly established, and at this point it has not been (2nd year in a row, actually).

    Rosa Parks’ ejection was a carefully correographed event, with witnesses and attorneys present. This helped humanize her story, and bring it to the larger masses. Merely protesting the bus situation had no effect — people as a whole needed to be convinced that the situation had actually happened to a specific real person. Third hand umbrage wasn’t working.

    In this case, for two years running, we have tried and failed to find a specific person/persons to whom the Dianics refused to admit to a ritual. I (and many others) look forward to hearing that person’s story.

    • “We’ve actually had trouble finding first-hand accounts from any persons who attempted to attend and were refused.”
      I’m not surprised. I can’t imagine knowing that I was not a ciswoman and lining up to be rejected at a ritual pointedly billed as “not for me.” With all of the rejection I would have already received, I wouldn’t go looking for more in a sanctuary. The best we can do right now is listen to the first-hand accounts we have of those who protested.

      Your corollary of Pantheacon to The Civil Rights Movement is a little jolting, at best. But if I accept the situation at hand and The Bus Boycott as logically related, I have to say, you’re right. The bus protest had a huge arsenal behind it. However, “real” history tells us that a number of Afican-American women were arrested in the weeks preceding the Parks incident. Ms. Parks, as iconic and brave as she was and as important as her contribution remains, was not the instigating incident. My suggestion is that we find an amenable set of transsisters to be cast out of exclusive rituals without pomp, followed by a more sympathetic figure to whom we give every support and then “carefully choreograph” her expulsion (lawyers and media at hand).

      At this point, with very little at stake, I wish you luck in finding willing participants in such a scenario.

      But all of this is moot. My point was not actually about the protesters. The fact remains that an “exclusive” ritual was billed as an event. That does not require “witnesses.” It’s right there in the schedule. And if you look again, you’ll see that I support Budapest’s right to hold whatever kind of ritual she wanted. My question remains – where do we draw the line on “genetic”? We know so little about the human genome (though we like to pretend otherwise) that it seems downright “random” to draw a limitation at presumed phenotype.

      So, maybe more to the point, you could help me advance *this* conversation by answering my actual question: If a non-ciswomen were to try to attend, on what grounds would she be expelled? Would a whoo-ha be a ticket for admission? If so, what if she had a good vaginoplasticist? Then what was the point of “genetic” in the first place. How’s about a blood test? I can’t think of a more horrifying place and time for a woman to find out that she has gonadal dysgenesis, can you? So tell me, west, where do we draw the line?

      After you help me get to the bottom of that, I’ll help you arrange the media blitz that you’d like to see. Deal?

    • josephmax says:

      My question for you is, “who is ‘we'”?

      My friend Sarah was denied admission to the CAYA ritual in 2011. She organized the protest that was to be held in the foyer of the hotel, which was cancelled when the convention offered her and her supporters a room to hold an open discussion on the issue. Reports and descriptions from the discussions were (at the time) made public. This year (2012) another discussion was held, with Sarah as the final speaker.

      Where were you?

      More information can be found at the webpage of the Circle of Cerridwen, and Alexandrian coven of which Sarah is a leading member.


  4. Marcassa says:

    Could you please clarify your comments following Crystal Blanton’s quote?

    • Yes, Marcassa, I see your point. I needed a better transition there. I do see how it seems like my comment, “Usually it’s those who are crying ‘inequality’ the loudest that are the ones who will strip your freedoms fastest. Some people want power so badly that they will deprive it from the most marginalized,” seems connected to Blanton. I apologize for that. It was not intended. I was trying to make a different comment – more related to the fact that a “feminist” group that marginalizes women seems absurd.

      In my head, I was also still having a two-days-long conversation with my (white, privileged, sheltered) Freshmen who had just read this article: http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2003/07/the-myth-of-multiculturalism. Like my writing students, sometimes I lose track of what I’ve “said” and what remains “in my head.”

      Thanks for pointing that out.

  5. […] guess I got myself in a bit of a huff[1] yesterday and failed to explain why I included P!ИK’s “Stupid Girl” […]

  6. Great post! This whole subject I’ll admit leaves me horribly confused – I don’t think of it in terms of blood and chromosomes, but in terms of cultural experience – in some ways I can understand a cis-female only empowerment thing working against their cultural conditioning as a female, as a transgender female hasn’t quite grown up in that experience, but on the other hand they are now a part of that experience and therefore have stuff to bring to it, but they are also part of a specific non cis experience as well. By the same token, what’s on the inside usually has very little to do with what’s on the outside, and non-cis female friends have shared that identifying on the outside as female and taking female hormones has made them feel and experience life like they felt they were supposed to in the first place. And if it’s biological baby-making femaleness that is the issue – why not exclude those who have had hysterectomies, those whose bit’s are female but don’t make babies, and those who just don’t and will not have kids?
    I guess maleness and femaleness are really cultural ideas because people are just people on the inside – hormones affect their experience, but that can very wildly within biological genders and across biological genders.
    I really have my thinking cap on now :S

    • Faeriedaughter, I agree with you 100%. I understand “gender” as cultural. Therefore, I recognize (even if I don’t identify with) the differences we all experience.

      My *specific* issue is with the term: “Genetic Women Only.”

      To believe that there is a a category “genetic woman” is wrong in the first place. “Woman” is a gender identifier, not a biological phenotype.

      This shows a gross misunderstanding (or a purposeful ignorance) of the human condition. *Especially* from someone who claims to be a feminist! The theory (and scientific evidence) is overwhelming and *decades* old. Hell, I learned this shite in the 90s – and I was behind the curve back then! As a gender theorist by vocation, I have to wonder when was the last time Budapest and “feminists” that agree with her have picked up a piece of theory. It’s so scary when people who don’t have enough respect for their subject matter to research it a little start spouting policy and ethics.

      It’s easy for people to admit that “gender is a spectrum, not a binary,” but when we start insisting that biology is binary, we are dead wrong. We know that we know that we know that even biological sex categories are clunky and overlapping at best. (And guess what? I wouldn’t have it any other way.)

      I feel a secular article coming on . . . crap.
      Blessings, Quarks, 93,
      TBW )O(

  7. Cat says:

    Thanks for teaching Anne Fausto-Sterling on your blog and to your students – her stuff totally rocks!

  8. Tana says:

    Don’t know what else to say, I think I just got hooked on your whole blog.

  9. Josie says:

    wow… I liked the post but I just think that the side notes are unnecessary like all the red and underlined hate notes to someone. It distracted me from the actual blog, not good. Now i’m just confused and I feel the need to go and search for more red ink, just to see more dirt. My advice and thoughts, you’re a great writer just lose the bullcrap 🙂

    • Aw, Josie. I guess not all writers are for all readers and vice-versa.
      Judging by your IP, you are incredibly local. Hard to believe that you are confused about the red notations. Don’t bother looking for more, btw; they don’t exist.
      Thanks for the smiley face, though. It makes a world of difference.

      • Josie says:

        Well I’m actually traveling through the area right now so I’m only staying where I can, I don’t really know many pagans here I’m headed to ATL 🙂 as soon as I can make a little cash. I just came across your blogs & was just trying to keep an eye out on who I can trust. :0 but thanks I do really enjoy your writing!

      • You can’t know who to trust based on a blog, sweetie. Be very careful. There are wolves in Mama-Witches’ clothing out there. That’s why The Bad Witch is here – to sound the warnings.
        There are a few groups on Facebook that have meet-ups and events so that you can meet more like-minded people while you’re here.
        Best of luck to you as you head East. Once you get there, check in and let us know you’re safe, K? ehsha2008@yahoo.com

  10. […] is the key to magical-proxy.[11] But then we say that other traditions are non-negotiable. Again, like my question about gender, I find myself asking where we draw the […]

  11. […] My answer on the following day ran like this (and many of you looooved it – don’t think I got so many “Amens” aside from my commentary on Z. Budapest): […]

  12. […] judge each other for political positions and, in the case of the last PantheaCon, the shape of our genitalia at birth. Are we really going to start judging each other for things […]

  13. […] heard very scholarly male magicians pooh-pooh the (admittedly often strategically deficient, ehem, Z.B.) attempts of feminists to genuinely reclaim the sacred feminine. Poke Runyon, for whom I have an […]

  14. […] really don’t talk about politics too often, do I? There was that DC40 thing last fall and the PantheaCon thing. But I don’t usually “go […]

  15. Raven True says:

    I just loved this blog. I’m writing very late, but I’ve just found this from a link in Patheos. A few years ago my daughter started bleeding, so I thought how wonderful I’ll take her to a womyn thing in the woods. I saw Z Budapest’s name on the net, and I admire her from wayback for going to ground on Tarot rights. I’ve actually been a bit hassled for my use of this esoteric psychological tool. Well, I read the fine print, and it says “only women born women need attend” Whahh?? My kid is queer, I’m queer. I want nothing to do with that. The most gorgeous, lovely Goddess chile I ever did meet was a beautiful Lady named Katrina, well over 6 ft with big hands and an adam’s apple. She had visions like I do, and she had spoken to Her. The Baptist’s use the phrase testify. Her testimony for me was so powerful. I remember thinking while I considered going to this meetup. How many nonborn women could have possibly bothered ms Budapest? What like 2, ever? The webpage says, I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings but, we have some sisters who’ve been abused. Yeah right, like nongender-normals are NEVER abused. I’m afraid of some men too. I watched my dad try to kill my mother (she was just too tough to die). It’s not the maleness, it’s the energy. My son is a wonderful pagan. My husband as well. It’s just so sad, but Z seems to bitter to Love. Love is the whole of the Law, Love under Will.
    Thanks again for this blog, I’m bookmarking, hope you’re still writing. Raven True

    • Ehsha Apple says:

      Thank you so much. I can’t see any sense in excluding that which was created by my Creator either.

      I’m writing. Off and on. I’ve moved to EhshaApple.wordpress.com. I’d be glad to have you visit.

  16. […] from talking about the cisfemale-only ritual brouhaha at PantheaCon a couple years back, I haven’t talked about discrimination as much as I should. And I haven’t […]

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